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	<title>Comments on: SFF market rejects our LGBTQ ad</title>
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	<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/</link>
	<description>the magazine of Science Fiction &#38; Fantasy with a twist</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:58:05 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Genreville &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How to Become Professionally Dead to Me</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Genreville &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How to Become Professionally Dead to Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-328</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#8217;s fairly simple.&#160; You say something like this:  Second, even with sexual love, there&#8217;s no law preventing any particular set of relationships:... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s fairly simple.&nbsp; You say something like this:  Second, even with sexual love, there&rsquo;s no law preventing any particular set of relationships:&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: There is no way to contain it&#8230; &#124; Crossed Genres</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>There is no way to contain it&#8230; &#124; Crossed Genres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-322</guid>
		<description>[...] Had a bit of controversy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Had a bit of controversy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Crossed Genres LGBTQ issue: The ad goes live</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Crossed Genres LGBTQ issue: The ad goes live</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-227</guid>
		<description>[...] after Bart Leib on Crossed Genres&#8216; blog [Ref #3] &amp; Outer Alliance posted [Ref #4] about FFO as a queer-unfriendly market, Bart Leib was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] after Bart Leib on Crossed Genres&#8216; blog [Ref #3] &amp; Outer Alliance posted [Ref #4] about FFO as a queer-unfriendly market, Bart Leib was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christian A. Young&#8217;s Dimlight Archive &#124;</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian A. Young&#8217;s Dimlight Archive &#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-195</guid>
		<description>[...] became aware of The Outer Alliance when a friend linked me to the Crossed Genres blog post about how their ad soliciting submissions for their upcoming LGBTQ issu.... The Outer Alliance helped spread the word, and supported Crossed Genres in figuring out how to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] became aware of The Outer Alliance when a friend linked me to the Crossed Genres blog post about how their ad soliciting submissions for their upcoming LGBTQ issu&#8230;. The Outer Alliance helped spread the word, and supported Crossed Genres in figuring out how to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jdfreivald</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>jdfreivald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-192</guid>
		<description>I posted this originally at the Outer Alliance blog, but I thought I should post it here as well. I&#039;ve changed the next-to-last sentence slightly, and I&#039;ve incorporated two comments into this one post. Otherwise it&#039;s the same content.

I would like to clear up one aspect of my post.

Brandon Bell says here:
http://nithska.blogspot.com/2009/09/crossed-flash-affair.html
...that I used a &quot;familiar tactic&quot; when I said, &quot;men can love men, women can love women, even men can love little boys[*] if that’s where their emotions and desires lead.&quot; But the quoted email was a private communication between Bart and me, not a blog post. I wasn’t employing rhetorical tricks trying to convert the undecided or to rile the faithful.

In other words, I wasn’t using &quot;tactics&quot;. If I had wanted to, I certainly wouldn’t have chosen &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; one.

In the original email, Bart said that this wasn’t about marriage, but about being able to choose whom you love. My point was that you can’t necessarily choose whom you love. That’s true regardless of whether you’re straight, gay, or even otherwise inclined.

I should be sensitive to the fact that GLBTs often feel under attack. I thought my disclaimer was sufficient to let Bart know that I was not &quot;stat[ing] directly or imply[ing] that m/m love is tantamount to raping kids&quot; (a reaction from an OA member blog), but apparently it wasn’t, and I apologize to the GLBT community for making you feel that way.

Similarly, Bell says, &quot;Here we see the casual listing of homosexual relationships with polyamory. Becuase we all know the Gay sleep around.&quot; Again, this isn’t a tactic. I was talking about &quot;different sexual relationships&quot;; I can think of at least one well-known polyamorous figure in science fiction, one whom I respect: I don’t think it impugns homosexuals or him to mention the two arrangements together. Perhaps if any GLBT people think it does, they could explain to me why. (Again, that’s not rhetoric: I simply don’t know why you’d feel that way.)

I’m not saying these things to argue, but because I don’t want people whom I respect to think that I equate them with child rapists.

Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this originally at the Outer Alliance blog, but I thought I should post it here as well. I&#8217;ve changed the next-to-last sentence slightly, and I&#8217;ve incorporated two comments into this one post. Otherwise it&#8217;s the same content.</p>
<p>I would like to clear up one aspect of my post.</p>
<p>Brandon Bell says here:<br />
<a href="http://nithska.blogspot.com/2009/09/crossed-flash-affair.html" rel="nofollow">http://nithska.blogspot.com/2009/09/crossed-flash-affair.html</a><br />
&#8230;that I used a &#8220;familiar tactic&#8221; when I said, &#8220;men can love men, women can love women, even men can love little boys[*] if that’s where their emotions and desires lead.&#8221; But the quoted email was a private communication between Bart and me, not a blog post. I wasn’t employing rhetorical tricks trying to convert the undecided or to rile the faithful.</p>
<p>In other words, I wasn’t using &#8220;tactics&#8221;. If I had wanted to, I certainly wouldn’t have chosen <i>that</i> one.</p>
<p>In the original email, Bart said that this wasn’t about marriage, but about being able to choose whom you love. My point was that you can’t necessarily choose whom you love. That’s true regardless of whether you’re straight, gay, or even otherwise inclined.</p>
<p>I should be sensitive to the fact that GLBTs often feel under attack. I thought my disclaimer was sufficient to let Bart know that I was not &#8220;stat[ing] directly or imply[ing] that m/m love is tantamount to raping kids&#8221; (a reaction from an OA member blog), but apparently it wasn’t, and I apologize to the GLBT community for making you feel that way.</p>
<p>Similarly, Bell says, &#8220;Here we see the casual listing of homosexual relationships with polyamory. Becuase we all know the Gay sleep around.&#8221; Again, this isn’t a tactic. I was talking about &#8220;different sexual relationships&#8221;; I can think of at least one well-known polyamorous figure in science fiction, one whom I respect: I don’t think it impugns homosexuals or him to mention the two arrangements together. Perhaps if any GLBT people think it does, they could explain to me why. (Again, that’s not rhetoric: I simply don’t know why you’d feel that way.)</p>
<p>I’m not saying these things to argue, but because I don’t want people whom I respect to think that I equate them with child rapists.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Cold, Crossed Genres, &#38; Flash homophobia</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Cold, Crossed Genres, &#38; Flash homophobia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-188</guid>
		<description>[...] so he wrote to Frievald seeking explanation.&#160; While Frievald&#8217;s response &#8212; you can read it here on the Crossed Genres blog &#8212; was civil &amp; thoughtfully written, it&#8217;s essentially again of the &#8220;love the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] so he wrote to Frievald seeking explanation.&nbsp; While Frievald&#8217;s response &#8212; you can read it here on the Crossed Genres blog &#8212; was civil &amp; thoughtfully written, it&#8217;s essentially again of the &#8220;love the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sabrinamwest</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>sabrinamwest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

I am also on the FFO staff, and have been there since the beginning. I disagree with the decision made regarding the ad and the interpretation of LGBTQ issues. In fact, I have long been a supporter of LGBTQ issues; I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, after all!  But I have very strong respect of Jake as a person and as our editor, and I would like to make the point that we have never rejected a story based on any gender, religious, ethnic, or LGBTQ issues. And I&#039;m proud of the diversity of backgrounds represented on our staff. And like Jake said, send us any and all stories. 

With much respect,
Sabrina West
FFO Staff

I understand why people are now reluctant to submit, but I urge everyone to take another look at the quality of the work we publish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>I am also on the FFO staff, and have been there since the beginning. I disagree with the decision made regarding the ad and the interpretation of LGBTQ issues. In fact, I have long been a supporter of LGBTQ issues; I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, after all!  But I have very strong respect of Jake as a person and as our editor, and I would like to make the point that we have never rejected a story based on any gender, religious, ethnic, or LGBTQ issues. And I&#8217;m proud of the diversity of backgrounds represented on our staff. And like Jake said, send us any and all stories. </p>
<p>With much respect,<br />
Sabrina West<br />
FFO Staff</p>
<p>I understand why people are now reluctant to submit, but I urge everyone to take another look at the quality of the work we publish.</p>
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		<title>By: crotchetyoldfan</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>crotchetyoldfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Well, I won&#039;t be submitting to that site anymore - not out of a sense of hatred, but because my world view has led me to a place of conscience that suggests I don&#039;t want to be involved with it in any way.

I&#039;m tempted to go on a rant here about how deeply rooted in BS the &#039;position&#039; offered is, but won&#039;t for three reasons: I&#039;m just plain tired right now, the audience here is already well aware of the flaws I&#039;d point out and (hoping this isn&#039;t true) the folks who espouse such views rarely, if ever, look into anything that might disabuse them of their ill-founded beliefs.

So, I do the only effective thing I can and remove myself from involvement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I won&#8217;t be submitting to that site anymore &#8211; not out of a sense of hatred, but because my world view has led me to a place of conscience that suggests I don&#8217;t want to be involved with it in any way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tempted to go on a rant here about how deeply rooted in BS the &#8216;position&#8217; offered is, but won&#8217;t for three reasons: I&#8217;m just plain tired right now, the audience here is already well aware of the flaws I&#8217;d point out and (hoping this isn&#8217;t true) the folks who espouse such views rarely, if ever, look into anything that might disabuse them of their ill-founded beliefs.</p>
<p>So, I do the only effective thing I can and remove myself from involvement.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl&#8217;s Mewsings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; LGBT Rights: the Good and the Bad</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl&#8217;s Mewsings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; LGBT Rights: the Good and the Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-184</guid>
		<description>[...] read. Go take a look at what Gordon Brown has to say about gay people, and then take a look at what Jake Freivald has to say about them, and ask yourself which one of them sounds like the better human [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] read. Go take a look at what Gordon Brown has to say about gay people, and then take a look at what Jake Freivald has to say about them, and ask yourself which one of them sounds like the better human [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jdfreivald</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator>jdfreivald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-183</guid>
		<description>Hi, Rod, and thanks for the comment. I enjoyed working with you and liked you before I knew you were gay, and now that I know, I still like you and would enjoy working with you in the future, if you care to do so.

You&#039;re one of the very few who has shown a modicum of actual tolerance -- mutual respect despite fundamental differences -- and I appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Rod, and thanks for the comment. I enjoyed working with you and liked you before I knew you were gay, and now that I know, I still like you and would enjoy working with you in the future, if you care to do so.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re one of the very few who has shown a modicum of actual tolerance &#8212; mutual respect despite fundamental differences &#8212; and I appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Santos</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Santos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-182</guid>
		<description>I was greatly saddened to read this as I am a gay writer who has previously sold stories to FFO.  While I don&#039;t agree with Jake&#039;s decision, I also don&#039;t believe he has arrived at his views from a place of hatred.  He states that he once supported gay rights.  Let&#039;s hope that he returns to that worldview, not because of &quot;pressure&quot; or negative press, but because a conscience-led examination has guided him back to the fold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was greatly saddened to read this as I am a gay writer who has previously sold stories to FFO.  While I don&#8217;t agree with Jake&#8217;s decision, I also don&#8217;t believe he has arrived at his views from a place of hatred.  He states that he once supported gay rights.  Let&#8217;s hope that he returns to that worldview, not because of &#8220;pressure&#8221; or negative press, but because a conscience-led examination has guided him back to the fold.</p>
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		<title>By: Just keep your wide eyes wide wide open &#124; Crossed Genres</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>Just keep your wide eyes wide wide open &#124; Crossed Genres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-181</guid>
		<description>[...] I lost count of all the posts and retweets about the rejected ad. A lot more people read about it than commented, though&#8230; as near as I can tell, over 1,100 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I lost count of all the posts and retweets about the rejected ad. A lot more people read about it than commented, though&#8230; as near as I can tell, over 1,100 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: racheline</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>racheline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-180</guid>
		<description>Thanks for letting us know where not to waste our time.  I think you made the right choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for letting us know where not to waste our time.  I think you made the right choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Solah, Marxist Horror Writer &#187; Flash Fiction Online Won&#8217;t Publish Queer Stories</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Solah, Marxist Horror Writer &#187; Flash Fiction Online Won&#8217;t Publish Queer Stories</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-179</guid>
		<description>[...] responded and questioned the decision leading to Bart posting this blog post exposing the market as pretty unlikely to accept queer-themed stories: I would probably not publish [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] responded and questioned the decision leading to Bart posting this blog post exposing the market as pretty unlikely to accept queer-themed stories: I would probably not publish [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bsolah</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>bsolah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-178</guid>
		<description>I feel it was very important to expose homophobes like this. Thank you for sharing this with everyone. This guy is a complete homophobe and I won&#039;t be submitting to FFO or recommending friends to submit there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel it was very important to expose homophobes like this. Thank you for sharing this with everyone. This guy is a complete homophobe and I won&#8217;t be submitting to FFO or recommending friends to submit there.</p>
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		<title>By: azurelunatic</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>azurelunatic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-177</guid>
		<description>This is regrettable. Thank you for posting about this. 

He&#039;s free to hold that editorial opinion, and I&#039;m free to avoid him and all his works, and advise my friends of his opinion too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is regrettable. Thank you for posting about this. </p>
<p>He&#8217;s free to hold that editorial opinion, and I&#8217;m free to avoid him and all his works, and advise my friends of his opinion too.</p>
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		<title>By: debhoag</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>debhoag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-176</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been on the editorial board at FFO since it&#039;s inception, and frequently disagree with Jake about pretty much everything, which makes it pretty surprising that I&#039;m still there, I guess. I also write for a magazine (Polluto, from Dog Horn Publisher in London) which delights in exploring the boundaries of human sexuality. My experience has been that our sexuality gilds everything we do in beauty. I&#039;m also a lot pithier than Jake. So, I&#039;m about done. But if it had been up to me, I would have run the ad, gladly. It was not a decision that I was aware of, but I avoid anything smacking of business with all the loathing I devote to politics and PTA meetings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been on the editorial board at FFO since it&#8217;s inception, and frequently disagree with Jake about pretty much everything, which makes it pretty surprising that I&#8217;m still there, I guess. I also write for a magazine (Polluto, from Dog Horn Publisher in London) which delights in exploring the boundaries of human sexuality. My experience has been that our sexuality gilds everything we do in beauty. I&#8217;m also a lot pithier than Jake. So, I&#8217;m about done. But if it had been up to me, I would have run the ad, gladly. It was not a decision that I was aware of, but I avoid anything smacking of business with all the loathing I devote to politics and PTA meetings.</p>
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		<title>By: Regarding queer-unfriendly markets &#171; The Outer Alliance</title>
		<link>http://crossedgenres.com/blog/sff-market-rejects-our-lgbtq-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Regarding queer-unfriendly markets &#171; The Outer Alliance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/?p=2196#comment-175</guid>
		<description>[...] click here to read the remainder of this item at the Crossed Genres [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] click here to read the remainder of this item at the Crossed Genres [...]</p>
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